S9Ep02
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Dustin: [00:00:00] Welcome to Talk angry with Kuhn and Eldridge. Happy to be back with you for the 2021 22 season on today's show, we will talk conference realignment teams, leaving the AAC teams proposed to be added to the AAC. We'll also discuss the American pre-season awards and get you ready for one of the most anticipated shocker basketball seasons since joining the American great show coming up right after.

Welcome back to talk angry with Kuhn and Eldridge, season nine of the Talk Angry Podcast Taylor,

How have you been

Taylor: Doing well, excited to have basketball season right around the corner and excited to, you know, start watching hoops again.

Dustin: It's crazy to think. It's that time of year, first exhibition game for the shockers. A week from Monday on November 1st.

And then first real game, I believe tips off on November 9th at Coca Rena. Nice to, uh, also have full capacity again at.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, a lot of these guys on this team, hasn't, haven't played in front of, you know, 10,000 fans at Koch arena. So I think that's going to be, you know, something, uh, that they're really looking forward to.

And, uh, you know, a lot of the guys that came in last year, you know, guys like Ricky council, Monzy Jackson, you know, guys that would feed off that energy. I think they're going to really like playing in front of the fans. And I think the fans are going to have a lot to cheer for this season. I think they're going to play a lot more up-tempo I think you're going to see them play a, you know, more exciting, uh, basketball, uh, you know, a few more lobs, a lot more dunks, stuff like that.

A lot of crowd pleasing stuff. So I think, uh, it's going to work both ways and yeah, I think everyone's just excited to, to get basketball back and going about as normal as possible.

Dustin: We recorded our off season special in July during the time of the TBT and the biggest headline since that time has to be conference realignment specifically related to the American Athletic Conference, and really what a ride it's been.

You saw Oklahoma and Texas leave the big 12 for the sec. Initially there's reports that the American could be on the offensive and going after some of those big 12 teams that turns out not to be the case central Florida, Cincinnati and Houston will be leaving the. Conference at some point here to go to the big 12.

Now we have reports, uh, that there would be expansion to 14 teams with a lot of teams from Conference USA. So it's, it's kinda just been a roller coaster here. I think most Shocker fans are not necessarily happy with how things have turned out so far. If you look at the conference they got into several years ago versus what it looks like today, but kind of just take us through the last few weeks.

And what footing you think the conference is on right now?

Taylor: Yeah. I think once this all started, you, you saw, uh, you know, Mike Aresco really make a push to, to expand westward, you know, go chase the Mountain West schools, you know, uh, Colorado State, air Force. So they were the ones that were rumored coming over. And then, you know, you obviously want Boise State, uh, you know, that was kind of the crown jewel.

If you could get Boise State, okay. W uh, you know, this is a conference that, you know, it was probably not as strong as it was, but, you know, it's still very, very strong, you know, maybe that opens the door for, you know, even as far west, as you know, San Diego State, you saw them in the rumors as well. And then yeah, things just kind of crumbled.

You know, there were reports that Colorado State and air force were coming over and then the next day, uh, you know, they backed out. So, you know, they, they decided to stand pat. Um, so once they struck out there that really hurt the American cause you know, what you're left with now is kind of, you know, what's the, the best, you know, the best route route left.

And you know, you're seeing right now, you know, now you're, you're, you're picking over these conference USA. We'll just go down the list for, to Atlantic Charlotte, north, Texas, Texas, San Antonio, Rice, and UAB. Those were the six that are rumor to be coming over to, to join the American. And, uh, as you say in your notes right here, 11 of the 14 have been members of the conference USA at one point or another.

So it's kind of just a remade Conference USA. And like you said, I mean, it's, is it as exciting as you know, the American was when WSU first year. Absolutely not, but, you know, I still think that the decision makers that were shall stay, if they had to do it all over again, they absolutely would have still left.

Uh, you know, the upside was just too much to, to join a new conference. Did it work out? No, but you know, I still think the potential is there. And you know, you still have that contract with ESPN, uh, which is, you know, kind of a Trump card over some of these other, other conferences outside of those power conferences.

You know, the, the fact that the American does [00:05:00] have a deal.

with ESPN that's that kind of puts them here at the top.

Dustin: I don't doubt the decision was the right one to go to the American. And it was the perfect fit that all of us were clamoring for really ever since Creighton left the Missouri Valley and went to the big east. The issue for me is when you look at this from a basketball perspective, all of these decisions are mainly made with football in mind and also with TV markets and eyeballs and.

From a basketball perspective, these teams getting added to the conference really don't add a whole lot. If we look at kin Palm, UAB is 71. That's roughly right around where the shockers are at 62, but North Texas is 1 35 rice, 1 44, and then it's a slippery slope from there. So it's like what, you know, from a basketball perspective, we've added a lot of east Carolina's then two lanes.

We haven't necessarily gotten a whole lot back. And when you see what's least. Cincinnati perennially good basketball school. Houston has been really a top 15 basketball program over these last few years. And even central Florida has had its moment. So, you know, the main driver and the whole reason people listen to this podcast and read a lot of your work is the men's basketball program.

I know there's other things to consider here, but I feel like Wichita state was weakened. Better off than it was in the Missouri valley. I still contend that. But if Memphis leaves the conference, if SMU leaves the conference, which you have to think, they're looking to have their foot out the door, then you really start to have to wonder.

And now we're, we're basically at the same point. And I think you have to look for additional opportunities.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, we've, we've seen, uh, some rumors go around that, you know, the Big East is looking to expand once their TV deal is up and 2025. I believe Dana O'Neil of the Athletic had Wichita State one of the top options to, to potentially, you know, expand and, you know, then you'd have to dig into the numbers on, uh, you know, how much, uh, the travel costs would be for it.

Because remember, you're not just thinking about, you know, just the men's basketball programs, you know, they can charter wherever, but you're thinking about the other, you know, the other, you know, Or whatever programs you have in your college athletic department and, you know, the travel costs for them w would be, uh, you know, I would think that it would be, uh, pretty high compared to the American, which already is, you know, a pretty, uh, you know, substantial increase from the Missouri valley days.

So, um, yeah, I mean, there's just a lot to consider, you know, the eight, 10 is another really good basketball league. I've seen some people, uh, you know, Uh, wish that wish our state. We reached out to them. I mean, I don't have any kind of insight and Intel on, you know, how those talks are going now. But I do know the last time, which I'll say was, you know, looking to move conferences, the big east had no interest in which.

And the eight, 10 was kind of the same thing. I don't think there was a lot of mutual interest there. Maybe things have changed, uh, just because of the landscape of college athletics have changed so much in the last five years. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it will be interesting to see if we're short stays, starts to look, uh, you know, and try to align itself with a more basketball centric league.

Like the biggies, like the eight, 10, something like that. Or, you know, everything that Darren Boatright has said the AD at, Wichita State. he's. I mean, I've talked to him multiple times now, every time. And he said, you know, we are committed to the American, uh, you know, we're basically right at right or die with AAC.

So we'll, we'll see, uh, you know, how long that, that last. Uh, you know, obviously things are changing and, uh, you know, it's a fluid situation. So I think his thoughts can change on that. Uh, you know, as time progresses, but for now as much as I know, you know, which I'll state is content staying in the American

Dustin: One thing I want to bring up, you know, a lot has been made that they can't leave because there's this $10 million exit fee. What I don't think is right. So Wichita State's not getting the full revenue share because they don't have football.

It's not been released. What exactly that revenue share is they in essence should not have the same. Fee as everyone else, if they're not getting the same revenue. So I think that should be down also. I think there's a gentleman that has his name on the arena that might be able to help with that exit fee if it came to it.

And then the other thing that's been thrown out as far as the conference opportunity would be the mountain west. I know they're not looking to expand right now, but Gonzaga seems to always be looking for a new basketball home. Maybe Wichita State could be paired as a, and as an Eastern version of that mountain west.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean that, that could work.

And obviously the, the big east too, they could have two cars or two divisions. You know, if they decided to expand, which would help with the travel cost. Cause you know, there are some, some trips in the big east where you could, uh, could bus, uh, same deal for the mountain west. I mean, obviously now you're just going in the opposite direction.

A lot would be flights. So I don't know what the. You know, if they, if they expand and go to divisions, I don't know how much that would help, what should I stay? But it would still, uh, you know, help a little with those minor sports. So, um, yeah, I mean, if you can find a partner to come in with, uh, yeah. Maybe, you know, which I'll stay in Gonzaga team up and say, Hey, let's, you know, let's make the best, uh, you know, power, non power, five conference and, and try to, you know, elevate them into that conversation.

I think [00:10:00] that would be enticing for any league, but like you said, you know, football drives all of these. Having a good basketball league is nice, but you know, it's not anywhere close to the number one money driver right now.

Dustin: Nice thing about the mountain west, their conference tournaments in Vegas. So just something else, keep in mind there of all these schools that we talked about, all conference USA members. Do any of them really excite you?

Taylor: You know, UAV is solid. Um, I think that's one that could be, you know, in the top half of the conference, but yeah, like outside of that, I mean, I wouldn't go as far as saying, you know, you're adding a bunch of two lanes in east Carolina's I do think there are some, you know, a little more potential in some of those programs, but I mean, you're not wrong in saying that these are, you know, a lot of the teams you're adding in terms of men's basketball.

I mean, these are going to be the bottom half of the conference. And, uh, now you look at, you know, who's leaving, who's coming in. You know, it's a, you know, it's looking like Wichita state is going to, you know, Memphis is obviously, you know, as long as they keep this recruiting class going with, with penny and who knows how long he'll be in Memphis, you know, obviously he's getting some MBA interests now.

And, um, uh, SMU, I mean, those three are looking like the, the teams that are going to be running this conference for the foreseeable future. Uh, you mean, I just don't see, you know, UAB, you know, rising up as much as, as that, uh, you know, uh, winning the conference, uh, north Texas has solid, uh, you know, a rice has been solid, but you know, outside of those, yeah.

I just don't see any other, one of those schools that are going to come in and start contending for, you know, at large NCAA tournament berths, so, you know, right away. So it's going to be amazing. Mostly, you know, Wichita state, Memphis, SMU.

of the world.

Uh, you know, hopefully Temple can get back up there. That's what the American is hoping, but you know, right now, you know, the temple is still, you know, a bottom half program until they prove it on the court.

Dustin: Jon Rothstein tweeted yesterday, he thought temple should look to move to the eight, 10 to a conference. That'd be focused a little bit more on basketball, although they do have a fairly good football program have had some success over the years.

Big question here is Memphis SMU, Wichita State. Two of those three are probably looking for an invite to the big 12 or the big 12 decides to expand. I know particularly Memphis would do that. And they've got some folks with some big pockets there, uh, with, you know, the FedEx money there. So hopefully they would stick around, but, but certainly not guaranteed.

So a lot of, a lot of changes happening in the conference. I have nothing against commissioner Aresco he's come on here. He's a, he's a nice person, but, uh, I thought it was interesting. He got a three-year contract extension right in the middle of the time that

Taylor: who knows if there,

Dustin: conference has

Taylor: who knows of the American will even be in existence in three years. We'll see.

Dustin: you don't know. So they did announce the preseason awards and the preseason poll last week, Houston was picked to win the conference. Memphis number two, SMU third by one point over Wichita State rounded out by central Florida, Cincinnati Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, Tulane, and ECU. Any surprises from that pre-season poll.

And, uh, I know you talk with some of the players kind of what were their reactions to being selected for.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I think the surprise probably from the outside looking in, it would just be Memphis, uh, you know, not being number one. Uh, you know, you look at the national media, a lot of, a lot of people have Memphis top 10 in the country.

Uh, you know, everyone that I've seen outside of, you know, or just the national. I mean, it has Memphis picked number one, uh, and basically everything I've seen. So, um, it was kind of interesting to see, you know, the coaches, you know, they just give the benefit of the doubt to Calvin Samson and, you know, rightfully so.

I think he deserves it. You mentioned earlier that, you know, he's turned that program into a top 15 program in recent seasons. And, uh, you know, even though they have a lot of turnover and there's, you know, a lot of question marks there, you know, that's still Houston. That's. No Kevin Samson. And you can kind of just pencil them in to being, you know, right around that top 25 and, uh, you know, just being a really, really tough out.

So I think a lot of people want to see Memphis prove it. You know, they've had teams like this before. I mean, definitely not as much talent as they have this year, but, you know, think back to the, you know, the James Wiseman season, they had a ton of NBA talent on that team. Uh, you know, look how that, you know, it turned out, you know, they still have not made the NCAA tournament under pennies.

So I think a lot of people inside the league kind of want to see, you know, penny prove it, uh, you know, they'll believe it when they see it. Um, so I think that was a little surprising to see Memphis, not get picked one, um, WSU right around, right around where I thought they would be. Uh, you know, I thought with the coaches, they would probably give them three just because they did when the conference last year, I do think there, you know, IB is kind of earned that respect, but, you know, one point a difference between SMU and WSU.

So not much of a gripe there, um, you know, obviously the players just, they just see the fourth place finish and, uh, yeah, Tyson Etienne, uh, when we talked to them and said, you know, we feel, you know, a certain type of way about that, you know, that's a motivation, I mean, in their eyes, they're the defending champs.

Everybody has to come through them and they have, you know, I think five [00:15:00] out of the top six score. Uh, back from last season, um, you know, they have a lot of returning town. They added a couple of really nice, uh, transfers that should be able to play right away. So they think they're going to be even better than they were last year.

So I can understand why they're, uh, you know, uh, maybe not frustration, but you know, just feeling like they've been slighted a little bit, you know, getting pegged forth in the conference. So Mel minor surprise there, but you know, from the outside, like the national media, a lot of people have, which us stay in that three, four or five.

Uh, you know, with SMU, which does state UCF, that seems to be kind of the, the next tier down from a, you know, Memphis, Houston. So, um, yeah, I mean, that, that was kind of their reaction. Just use it for bulletin board material and, you know, obviously they were picked seventh last year and, and finished first.

So, um, I think Tyson Nazi, instead of best, when you say you notice the preseason, we haven't played any games. So none of this stuff really matters.

Dustin: Yeah. The polls are good to look at for a few minutes and then put it in the drawer until the end of the year and see how everyone turned out. SMU did have some good transfers. They have Kendrick Davis that made first team all AAC. But yeah, I did expect Wichita State to be third, but one point away, not a big deal there.

Tyson Etienne preseason player of the year. So nice for him to get the recognition.

Taylor: Yeah. And, uh, you know, that's, that's just respect from other coaches that, uh, you know, I've seen him play, I've seen him put in the time and it's pretty crazy, you know, think going into last year, you know, he wasn't even really on the radar for, you know, first team, second team.

Uh, he was just, you know, kind of a nice, uh, you know, complimentary piece that, that first year at Wichita state. And it just kinda goes to show you just like how big of a jump. Tyson has made from that first year, all the way to now where he's, you know, basically the unanimous a player of the year. And, um, you know, I've seen some other people, you know, a lot of people are going to go with the Memphis freshmen, uh, um, or any, any Memphis player, you know, Jalen Derryn, uh, Amani Bates or popular picks.

I mean, if you like Houston, this year, Marcus Sasser is going to be really good. Um, so I think he's, he's definitely got a lot of competition this year. Uh, you know, what should I say, if he's gonna, you know, get that second straight year being player of the year, what should all stay? It's going to have to be, you know, in that mix for, you know, top two, top three teams in the conference.

So, um, it will be interesting to see how he, uh, you know, responds to, you know, being the number one guy from the. This season and, you know, he's the number one thing on every scouting report. Uh, you know, people are going to be pouring over his film, uh, and he's going to be the, you know, the focal point of, of every scouting report, uh, you know, from the jump this season.

So it'll be interesting to see how he responds to that and kind of takes his game to a, to another level this year.

Dustin: First AP poll of the season came out on Monday. Memphis is number 12. Houston is number 15. And as I mentioned, Wichita, Sade is kin Palm rank. Number 62 to start the season. I mentioned it in the intro. I don't know about you.

In my opinion, I'm fired up about this, this club and this team coming in. I think they have the scheduled, it lines up. They've got some talent that they've added from last year. And I really do think this is the most highly anticipated season since they joined the American. But I also like the fact that they're kind of flying under the radar, at least so far.

Really? No one's talking about a Memphis is going to get most of the discussion in the AAC right now. So am I wrong to feel the way I do? Is that just because we're a haven't even started yet?

Taylor: No. Dustin, you should feel however you want to feel I'll support you, but no, I was a little surprised with, I was reading like an ESPN article talking about the American.

Teams that are going underneath the radar. And I thought, for sure, you know, what should I stay would be kind of the obvious answer there because, you know, uh, you know, there's kind of being swept aside and that's fine. You know, the Memphis has so much talent, you know, honestly they have, you know, top five talent and I thought that was kind of interesting.

They, they weren't even in the top 10 and the eight people, but, you know, uh, they have, you know, as much talent as just about anybody in the country. Then Houston is Houston Kellen. Samson is just a machine. Uh, but you know, Wichita State, you know, they are the defending champions.

They do bring back Tyson Etienne.

They have a, you know, a veteran team and they, they added two transfers. Like I said, that I think employee right away. So, um, I was surprised to see that ESPN article though, that almost nobody, I think that they mentioned wishlist state once briefly, but everyone was talking about SMU and everyone who wasn't talking about SMU was talking about UCF.

So I thought that was a little interesting and, uh, kind of the same, you know, similar situation. That wished us say found itself in last year, you know? No, you know, limited expectations or outside the program, nobody's really talking about you. I think that's where these guys, uh, you know, do their best work, you know, they're, they love pointing that underdog role.

And I think they can see some, uh, you know, surprise some people too, because you know, I, I do see the ceiling on this team is, you know, Maybe they don't win the conference championship again this year, but I do think, you know, the ceiling on this team is becoming, you know, a better version of last year seem maybe a, you know, maybe not a better record, but I do think they can get a better seed in the NCAA tournament, you know, uh, you know, play themselves [00:20:00] off that bubble where they're, you know, maybe a 7, 8, 9, something like that, even higher, if you know, the season goes really well.

And the American is as strong as I think it potentially has a chance to be. Uh, whereas maybe a four, four bid league we'll, we'll have to see there, but, um, you know, I think what should I say, really enjoys playing that underdog role. And like you said, I mean, I think fans have every right to, to believe that this team could cause surprise just as much as last year.

Dustin: I think the steam also has a bad taste in its mouth, from how the season finished that game against Drake. I think that stuck with them, particularly Tyson and was part of the reason that he, he announced that he was coming back for another year. So I think that drives them to go, you know, certainly further than they did last season.

And also if you're a first or second year player in this league, you've not played in Coker, Rina that I will say outside of maybe Cincinnati, which they're down. So I don't think they're going to have that atmosphere. I think Coquina will have the best atmosphere in the league this year. Would you disagree?

Taylor: Uh, yeah.

I mean, I would think Memphis is going to be, you know, pack that, you know, they have the NBA arena, they can put, you know, 18, 20,000. I think people are going to be fired up about them, but you know, if they struggle out of the gate, you know, a lot of people are going to be like, okay, here we go again with penny, you know, uh, it's going to be interesting to see how they do in the non-conference.

They have a few, a few, you know, big tests coming up and, uh, you know, if they can, you know, run the slate or just look like a top 10 team, I think their fans are going to be super fired up. I know you have a, you know, you feel a certain way about the Memphis Memphis fan base as well. So

Dustin: I'm just saying that's a very business-like crowd. They're there in their polos. It's a corporate crowd, you know, they're over at the concession stand or in the luxury box.

Co-curated a bring your lunch pail type place and we're yelling the whole dang time. So I don't think it's as intense. Yes. There's more people. I will give it that, but, uh,

Taylor: but yeah, I mean,

Dustin: it's as intimidating

Taylor: think those games are, I think there's a nice little rivalry.

Uh, you know, developing with wished I stay in Memphis and, uh, you know, right now and their fans

mean, Memphis is kinda own that, that series. I mean, since penny took over, I think he's foreign one against WSU, um, since he took over. So yeah, what should I say? They need a. They need a, you know, a couple of wins to get back in that and kind of announced themselves.

And, uh, you know, if they can beat Memphis at Koch arena, that's the January 1st game, I believe. Yeah. That's going to be, it's going to be a big game

Dustin: as a nationally televised game

Taylor: CBS. Yeah. So that's a, that's a big time platform. If we're stressed state can, uh, you know, when that one and yeah, there, you're going to be in the top 25 more than likely if you're having a good year at that point.

And you're going to start to start to get some buzz. If you can, you know, win that game.

Dustin: Only when was that blackout a few years ago where your boy, Eric Stevenson went off and they were ranked in the top 25 after that. So quite the rise and fall of that.

let's take a break. When we come back, we'll focus more on the shocker roster. We'll take a look at the early season schedule. Take a guess at your starting five and give you some predictions for the 20 21 20 22.

Good to go

Welcome back to talk angry Taylor, since we did our summer special, we had one player leave the program. Shockers also had an open scholarship that they use to sign a new player. And then, uh, I believe there are some, um, looking at how, you know, if they have a scholarship available now or not. So just kind of give us an update on everything that's happened since then.

Taylor: Yeah. So, uh, Matt McFarland, uh, six 11, uh, center plate last season, uh, Kansas Juco ball. Uh, he ended up leaving the program for personal reasons. Um, you went back home, uh, went back to, uh, uh, right around Philadelphia. And I think he's at LaSalle now, I believe is where he transferred. And, um, I think what is going to come down to if Wichita state can get that scholarship back or not is, is if the NCAA rules him eligible right away.

If he is eligible to play this season and we're, shall I say, would get that scholarship back. But if he does have to sit out, then it's unlikely that I wished I'll stay. We'll get that scholarship back. I don't think it's a huge deal. I'm just one of those things where it's nice to have in the back pocket.

Uh, you know, in case there's a mid season transfer or anything, you know, uh, if you want to take someone at the, at the middle of the season or whatever, but, um, so it's not the end of the world, if that ends up not happening for where should I stay, but it's something they would like to have, you know, a little flexibility.

So right now,

now,

Um, that they were at, um, you know, 12 Matt leaves, uh, right now that scholarships still accounts against them. And then they, since he left, they brought in and this is unrelated. They were going to do this anyway, but they ended up signing a high upside freshmen, Isaac. [00:25:00] Um, he was a guy that was going to go to prep school and then, you know, they brought him in on an official visit.

They really liked how you interviewed really liked him as a, as a person and, uh, was impressed with how he, uh, you know, scrimmaged against the guys and they offered him a scholarship on the spot. I said, Hey, just come here a year early. So he's basically a year ahead of schedule and yeah, he's a total freak show.

I mean, he's super athletic and, you know, touch the top of the back board can even shoot it a little bit. I made a three against Texas tech and the scrimmage. Um, so he's the guy that's a, you know, a very, very interesting, uh, you know, high ceiling, a guy that, you know, probably not going to contribute right away, but that's the guy.

If he can stay in the program, 2, 3, 4 years, Uh, someone that could be a very, very nice, good for which does state, uh, down the road. So, yeah, right now there are 13 scholarships. And like I said, depending on what happens with McFarland, uh, you know, they could get that, uh, 13th one back, uh, for 2021. And like I said, they could use that middle of the season if there's someone that's looking to transfer right away.

Uh, and you know, kind of like the Connor Frankamp situation, you know, from years back, uh, if you want to add someone in the middle of the season, Uh, that could be an option, but as it stands right now, uh, they don't have any scholarships to give their, uh, you know, they appeal to the NCAA. And they're still just waiting to hear back from that.

Dustin: You brought up that not so secret scrimmage with Texas tech. I know you had some tweets over the weekend. Um, so just give us a little thoughts on what your takeaways were from the.

Taylor: Yeah. So it was a little confusing cause uh, you know, uh, Jeff Goodman tweeted out right away that a Texas tech and one, a, a scrimmage. And it was like, like 81 to 55.

55 Yeah, they lost by like 26 and, uh, that's the way it made it look like. And that's what I was told was that's the way that the staff person stated it, but the way that the scrimmage actually went was, so that whole day they did like three segments.

The first segment was like a half court. Uh, you know, we're going to do, it's like a controlled. Setting, you know, you, you do five straight possessions. You, you run your half-court sets and see how many you can score, which should I say to actually one that, uh, segment against Texas tech. Um, so then they go to a second segment was basically a 20 minute scrimmage and that's the one where Texas sex just absolutely blasted Wichita state.

I was told that tech was just, you know, it brought the energy, uh, Kevin Obana just got super hot from the outside and they just. Uh, rampaged all over him. And I was, so the IB played, you know, played, uh, played all of his guys, uh, spread out the minutes. Wasn't really concerned with the result, uh, played a lot of those freshmen.

And, uh, that kinda, probably that probably, I mean, there were, I mean, the way that it started, they were probably going to lose regardless of who you played. But, you know, I think that's the reason why I kinda got a little out of it. Where it got to that 25, 26 point range. Um, and then, so the second scrimmage, it's a, it's a, you know, a brand new game.

It's not like the scoreboard red, you know, what should I say? It's down by 25 when we started, um, I think that's where it kind of confused a lot of people by that, that tweet. So, I mean, it starts at zero zero, which does state, um, you know, they start they're veterans. They, they cut down the rotation, they play more like, you know, this is what I gained when in like February would, would it be played like, you know, with a tire rotation and they played their top guys.

And I was told they played really, really well got up by about 10 and then kind of held on at the end, they ended up winning 35 to, I think, 32 or something like that. It was like a pretty close margin. So. They actually won, you know, two out of the three segments, but because they lost that, that first scrimmage so bad, it looked like it kind of just skewed the results.

So a lot of mixed results, I would say out of that, you know, obviously it's, you know, a little bit concerning to, to give up. I think they gave up like 50 something points in that first scrimmage. So that's not ideal. You don't want to be giving up 50 points in 20 minutes, especially, you know, in a scrimmage type situation like that.

Um, but you know, on the other hand, you know, they did beat a, you know, pretty, pretty decent, you know, Texas tech team that second time. And they won the half court setting too. So I think there are things to build on there I was told Tyson at was, was very good. He had 15 points in that second scrimmage alone, 20, uh, total, uh, Ricky council, the fourth at a good, a good day.

He had 12 points and I think a team high, six rebounds quake grant was another one that, that impacted. With his defense and also doled out five assists. So that, that might be a little, a precursor to show that he's going to be pointing more point guards and then shooting guard on this team. So that was one thing I found a kind of interesting coming away with that.

And. Yeah, I think the starting five they went with was, so it was Craig Porter, Tyson, Dexter, um, Joe pleasant and, uh, Monsey Jackson. And I forgot it until the lead with yeah. Morrissey, Desi, uh, w did not play the entire day. He's still being held out with a [00:30:00] shoulder injury, a little concerning, just because he has so much of a history of his shoulder injuries.

That's what ended his first two seasons that wishlist. But I'm told it's not, it's not, you know, nothing major right now. They're just doing it as a precautionary thing. Then Chauncey Jenkins and other guys is probably gonna be in the rotation. Uh, he was a guard, uh, who also missed that day. Hyperextended his knee in practice recently.

So those two guys were out. Um, but yeah, outside of that, those were, those were kind of the takeaways, Dexter, uh, really struggled shooting, but I was told that he had. Um, he played really good defense, Joe pleasant. It was the guy that kind of, you know, did all the dirty thing, dirty work. All the little details didn't really shoot too much, but, uh, you know, he was playing mostly the five that day.

So he was more concerned with, you know, boxing out pointed defense and, and trying to bang downloads. So maybe that's why you didn't see him as involved on the offense

Dustin: Brought up grant pleasant. I know there's several others. Which newcomer do you think has the biggest impact on the,

Taylor: Yeah, I think Qua Grant's going to be the guy that probably is the most, you know, um, the, the biggest difference that fans will notice just because he's probably gonna score the most of the newcomers. Uh, this guy is a guy. I mean, he can, he can get to the basket. He's so quick. He's got a, you know, very strong frame is not huge, but you know, he knows how to use that frame to guard, uh, you know, against bigger guys, you can just put that body into him and he knows how to use it, to protect us.

Uh, to get to the rim is really good or pull up jumpers, floaters. I mean, he can just score in the paint and he knows how to get there. And, um, yeah, I mean, that was kind of the concern. Cause anytime you go from division two to division one, That's what I'm always told, you know, just the length and athleticism around the rim.

That's the biggest change, you know, from those levels. But, you know, he's a two time, all American for a reason is because you can score the ball. And then in the scrimmaging, I mean, you, I mean, I didn't see them play, but you know, five assists that tells me that he was looking to get guys involved and that's a very promising sign that he could be playing, you know, major minutes off the bench, that the one, and then, you know, if, if. Tyson

It was in foul trouble or has to sit for, you know, whatever. You know, I think he has that scoring punch to bring to WSU where he could be the two as well. So I think koi, Grant's going to be the, the, the, you know, the flashy Playmaker guy. And then, uh, Joe pleasant though, he's going to be a huge addition to this team.

Like I said, he does all of the little things. I don't think he's going to play as much five as he did in that scrimmage. I think he's going to be mostly the four with Monsey kind of split, splitting sound with those two guys. But I, you know, there's super reliable, a team defender. Um, you know, he can do just about everything on offense.

Can, you know, if he has got a big guy on him, he can stretch them out to the corner. Uh, you can shoot the three, he's got a smaller guy on him. He can take him down low and punish him down, down, uh, down inside a, you know, a good rebounder for his size. So I think he's going to be very, very solid then the freshmen, I think you're going to see play the most is going to be Kenny Poteau six 11 guy won the three point shooting contest that shocker man.

A lot of fans are very intrigued after that. And, um, you know, it was just, uh, what IB told me earlier this summer was that he was, yes, he's impressed by the three point shooting for a six 11 guy. But he was even more impressed by just how technically sound he was on defense. Uh, he said he was like maybe the most advanced freshmen, uh, defensively he's had since Dexter Dennis.

So that's very high praise for Kenny posts. Especially at a position of absolute need, because, you know, after, like we talked about Matt McFarland leaving the program, six, 11, uh, center sophomore, he was going to be, you know, another option at the five position. But now without him, you know, WCBA is basically just down at Kenny Poteau and, uh, you know, they don't really have anyone, you know, with the, the, the length and the height like Kenny.

So he's going to be a very valuable piece for WSU. Uh, it, it's always tough to, you know, play. At that high, a level as a true freshman though. So it's going to be interesting to see how much he can contribute right away. But I do think he's going to see minutes right away in this rotation, and he's going to be able to change the offense because of his, his shooting ability.

And if he can hang it, you know, uh, you know, hold his own rebounding and on defense as a huge, huge addition for WSU.

Dustin: we saw , in my opinion, make the biggest jump year over year, last season with his play. What's a returning player that you think coming into this year might have a bigger impact or might see that same level of leap.

Taylor: I think Craig Porter is a good pick here just because, you know, he was so banged up last year. And, you know, he's, he's finally healthy. Um, he did not have a good scrimmage against Texas tech from what I could see, but you know, everything I've heard this summer is that, you know, the results are, are promising, you know, he's, he's gotten that explosiveness back that it made him such a good defender, such a good rebounder at the Juco level where he was an All-American.

Um, I think that's, you know, it's not like WSU needs him to come in and be, you [00:35:00] know, a huge Playmaker or anything like that. Um, you know, they have a good offense employees, but I think if you can just be that, that floor leader in control, um, he's going to be, you know, he's, he's very smooth watching him play.

I think if you can just distribute to Tyson and then you're going to have guys like Dexter Dennis and Ricky council on the week. Uh, find those guys just passed to make good passes inside to Mo I mean, that's, that's all WSU needs him to do is just kind of be a for general. And, uh, I think he, he could see his numbers go up just because of, you know, opportunity.

Um, so Craig Porter would be a good one. Um, you know, Chauncey Jenkins is another one that all the coaches really, really love. I think he gets a surprise, but, um, I just don't see the path for, you know, that many minutes for him right away. But I think down the road, I think Chauncey Jenkins is, is definitely a name to remember that that could be, you know, important for which I say, if not this year, then probably next year, then

Dustin: What's your early guests at the starting five.

Taylor: I'm going to go with Chris. Um, at the one Tyson at the two, um, let's go Dexter at the three. I think the four is, is, you know, kind of 50, 50. I think Joe pleasant will probably win. I think they just love mozzies energy off the. He's just like such a game changer, uh, when, when he comes into the game and just, uh, you know, just gives the issue, such a different look.

I think they like that coming off the bench. So I think those two points similar minutes, but I'll go with Joe to start the season and then obviously Mo with the five. So, um, I think it was, yeah, that's a, that's the lineup I would go with at least start the year.

Dustin: Do you see Tyson playing much point guard this year.

Taylor: And I, I, I think there will be times. I mean, WSU like that dribble drive offense. I mean, there's really not, you know, the point guard initiates it, but after that, it's, you know, pretty much whoever has the ball. This is the guy that can initiate or just, you know, take a ball screen or just take their man off the dribble.

So, um, I mean, I think you're going to see him, I think, as assist numbers go up this year. Um, I think his playmaking goes up, but I don't think he's going to be running, you know, bringing the ball up too much just because they have, you know, guys like Craig Porter and clay grant who can, who can get that job done.

And he's so good at, you know, coming off screens and coming off pin downs and just, you know, uh, you know, spotting up on the three point line. I don't think you want to take that's his bread and butter. So I don't think you want to take away that too much. It will be interesting to see how they kind of play that, that, that line because, you know, NBA, people want to see Tyson play point guard, uh, but you know, to maximize Wichita's stays talents this year, you know, he's probably gonna have to play a lot of off guard again.

Uh, it will be interesting to see that that balancing act, how they do the season. And I've asked Tyson about that before the season. And, uh, he said, you know, he's not concerned about NBA. I mean, Scouts, anything like that. He wants to help Wichita State when he's in total Wichita State mode right now. So, um, it be interesting to see though.

I mean, you can say that, but until, I mean, there's going to be people in his ear all season talking about, you know, you need to do this, you need to do that for the NBA next. Um, but, you know, I think Tyson's got a good head on his shoulders. And, uh, I think he, I, I do believe him when he says he will put Wichita shot, stay at first and do whatever his team needs him to do.

And, uh, I think IB said that too, or, you know, I think NBA Scouts will, will value that too. If they see him doing all the little things, you know, if he does need to play more to, uh, for his team, I think that can be valuable and helping his, uh, you know, NBA stock next year.

Dustin: the schedule was finalized. Since the last time we had a show, 30 games altogether 12 in the non-conference 18 in conference, non-conference kind of has three distinct chapters.

They start off with Jacksonville State, South Alabama, and Tarleton State. Then they get into their high major competition. They're going to play Arizona in either Michigan or UNLV out in Vegas.

You have at Missouri, at Oklahoma state and K State at Intrust Bank Arena, then they finished with four, you know, lower major schools in Norfolk State, Alcorn State, North Texas might be your conference brethren here soon in Prairie View A&M I'll speak for you and say that the most exciting conference game is that January one, home game, nationally televised against Memphis, but what's the non-conference game that you're most excited about.

Taylor: and I think it will be probably that Arizona game and in Vegas, that's the, that's the kind of the first big test of the season. You know, they started out the season. Three kind of, uh, you know, gimmes at home Jacksonville state though, they're, they're a quality team, so that's not like you can just, uh, you know, sleep, walk your way to a win there.

But you know, WSU is obviously going to be, you know, a double digit favorite. Um, so if they can take care of business there, you know, you're going into that, that Vegas tournament three, you know, big showdown against Arizona. That's a team of the first year coach. I mean, they've had their own share of, you know, off

Off a, you know, off season, uh, dramatic.

So, uh, that's a, it's a good opportunity. And then if you beat them, then you get a [00:40:00] crack at Michigan. Who's probably gonna be a, you know, a top five top 10 team. So, uh, that's a huge game in my opinion, for which does stay because, you know, if you get that win as likely gonna finish, uh, as acute. Uh, when for, for which a say come tournament time, which would be a nice, uh, you know, nugget to have going into conference play or where you could probably pick up a, another, you know, three, four or five opportunities, uh, at that Q1.

So, um, I think that's going to be the big game for Wichita state. Um, and not only just because if they win it, but also what comes after just having a chance at a top 10. That early in the season, if you win, you know, now you're on the national land landscape. If you lose, you know, no, no harm there. That's a really good team.

Dustin: Michigan is number six in the first AP top 25 pole of the season. I mentioned 30 games, 12 non-con 18 conference. Give me a record prediction.

Taylor: oh man, that's tough. Let's go. Non-conference I'm thinking. You know, nine and three is kind of where I'm thinking, um, for them, uh, you know, the, the two road games are the ones that will be kind of the, the swing games for them, you know, at Missouri, at Oklahoma state, you know, if this team comes out, uh, stronger than we expect, I mean, I don't think there's any reason to believe that, you know, we're the only team better than what should I stay would be, you know, that, that potential Michigan showdown and you could be looking at, uh, 11 and one, I think that's probably the ceiling.

Um, but I'm going to go nine and three, be a little conservative. And then the conference play, you know, I think, like I said, I think this is going to be a much improved conference. I think you're going to see. For bids, um, potentially, uh, with, with Houston and Memphis, which should stay and then either SMU or UCF, whoever kind of rises from the pack there.

So I think there, what I've said from the jump is I think, what should I say is record's going to be worse than last season, but I think they're going to be a better team. And like I said, I think they could get a better NCAA tournament seating. So I'm thinking like 12 and six, 13 and five, something like that, um, in the, in the conference place.

So I guess that would, that would put me right at like 22 wins is what is what I have them pegged at before going into conference tournament season. Where do you think?

Dustin: I think that feels about right. I would be disappointed anything less than nine and three in non-conference. I think you have to go into that with that's the expectation and you know, I think Missouri is somewhat down. Oklahoma state is a good program, but. You know, as good in my opinion, as they were last season case stated interest bank rain, and you just have to win that game.

Uh, and then as far as the conference schedule is concerned, don't every year we say, I think the AAC is going to get about four beds this year. And then at the end, we're saying, please. To please give us too. So I do think the top four teams in the conference will really separate themselves from the rest.

I know people like UCF, UCF, I'm not as sold on them. So 22 to 23 wins, it feels about right. And for the first time, this season by herself,

Bryan: All right. So we spent some time, obviously talking about who the starting lineup would be.

So regardless of who it is, you know, the big change, this year is who's going to play point guard. So over the course of the season, I want You to give me a buy or sell.

The point guard that starts the first game is the point guard who starts the last game of the regular season.

Taylor: That's tough. All I'll buy that. Um, I think this is a 50 50 question though, cause I really, really like quake grant. Could it be the same thing though? Is a, um, kind of like Monsey though. Are they just like him coming off the bench kind of changing the momentum of the game? But I think, uh, you know, judging from everything I've heard this summer, you know, Craig Porter has been very, very good.

Uh, he's got a year in the system, so he's kind of got that advantage. Uh, so I will, I'll, I'll buy that. I think Craig Porter starts the season and finishes the season at point guard.

Dustin: I'm going to sell that. I think, uh, you know, from all you've said on grant that, uh, he, you know, it's gotta be someone that can add and from the sounds of the scrim and she was dishing the ball as well. So I think he's a starter by the end of the

Taylor: You could also just move Tyson a point guard and then make way for Ricky council into the starting lineup too. So that's, that might be their, their best five, that option. So we'll see. That's a good question though.

Bryan: Do you lose too much ball handling?

Taylor: Uh, yeah, I mean, it just depends on, you know, if Dex has made

Dustin: and gun shockers, you know, we're just getting the rebound and running

Taylor: if Dex has made that jump and it is off the, off the dribble, uh, you know, then it's possible. I think Ricky is a guy that can get his own shot. Um, but you know, their offense. It's not like there's too much, you know, Uh, you know, a reliance on, you know, the, the assist pass. I mean, a lot of it's just, you know, uh, putting them in ball screens and just letting them go and kind of seeing if they can get to the basket.

I think Ricky council is a guy that can do that. They actually, there's a guy that's going to have to prove he can do that. Uh, I think, uh, we've been waiting on it for, for a [00:45:00] long, long time.

and

He looked good every time I saw him this summer, but you know, we'll, we'll have to see, it's kind of one of those things where he's going to have to prove he can do it before we fully believe it.

But I think there's definitely some, uh, you know, some upside there Monsey, he's a guy that can create two off the dribble for against if he's matched up with four. So I think that it could be an intriguing lineup, but yeah, I mean, I think that's a real possibility too, if they just want to go all, all in on offense, if the shift Tyson to point guard and because he had changed there too, so. Yeah, I'm still buying it, but I think that's, I'm just, yeah, just playing devil's advocate. That's why I say, I thought it was a great question. And I think there's a lot of, any of the thing that Ivy loves about this roster. Is there so much flexibility and there's so much, uh, you know, the starters in the backups compliment each other so well, too.

So there's just a lot of different options. He can, he can work with.

Bryan: I mean, you can, you really can look at the roster and go, this guy can play the four and the three, he can play all these different positions.

They can guard all these different positions. The only position you don't really feel that way is the center. It's like, if you know, you really are, depending on Kenny to be able to pick up those backup minutes or Joe, to be able to fill in as an undersized five, which, which is a bit of a challenge. second question.

Going back to conference realignment, projecting out five years. Wichita State is still in the American Conference, buy or sell.

Dustin: I'm going to sell that cause I'm not sure. In five years, the American conference is still going to be a conference. I think, uh, you know, they, you can only, it's kind of death by a thousand cuts. You can only have so many of these schools continue to leave. I think Memphis is out the door at some point here, pretty darn soon.

I think SMU would do it as well. I think both of those schools would consider the mountain west right now. So, uh, I know the TV contracts are somewhat similar, so I'm gonna say.

Taylor: yeah, I think, I think I'm going to sell to 'em, uh, with the same thing that, that Dustin just said. I mean, I think that. Everything I've heard is that Memphis is going to be out the door once the big 12 decides to expand, not sure about SMU, but, uh, yeah, I think there's just going to be so much turnover that I dunno if the Americans still going to be a thing and in five years, so we'll see.

Maybe they call it something different. I guess that might be the loophole to the question is if it's not called AAC, is it still the AAC?

Dustin: The athletic did a, uh, article this summer where they actually said college basketball and college football should break away and there should be a geographic conference. So they had like Wichita State in the same conference with like K U and Missouri and Iowa state and Nebraska and go more geographic just because.

No, I'm just saying, I'm just giving you a little, a view of the region here. So it would be interesting. I mean, at some point maybe football just goes off on its own and had super conferences and then basketball is able to realign in, in

Taylor: I've seen that, uh, like football, they would do like 16 team conferences and just do 64. And yeah, that would be interesting to see if they, I don't know if it happens, but man, like if you would have asked, you know, five years ago, if all this stuff had happened, we probably would have said no to if OU and Texas, whatever, leave the big 12.

I mean, that's, that's pretty crazy. So never say never.

Dustin: I'm sorry, this doesn't matter as much, but I'm surprised.

Oh, you left Oklahoma state behind and UCF left USF behind lagging. If I'm in the state and they're all intertwined, these state universities, it's like, what the heck, bro? What are you doing here?

Taylor: Yeah, I I'd read something where, I guess when USF left, um, they like hung it over UCF head for a really long time.

So that kind of rubbed them the wrong way. And now. Uh, 15 years later, whenever later now UCF is the national program that everybody wants and USF is the one getting left behind. So I don't think there's any love loss there.

Bryan: All right. We've talked about Tyson's growth last year, becoming the co conference player of the year. This year, he's the preseason conference player of the year teams are going to be focusing on him, but he's also been working. to develop his skills going through the NBA process. Do you see. Tyson hits a another. And gear this year. Another jump with the little snubs.

Talking about getting fourth place. I mean, even the pre-season Shooting guard of the year watch list came out. Tyson's not on that list. Landers Nolly from Memphis is on that list. Do you see him taking those chips and using it as motivation to take another step forward? Big step?

Taylor: Yeah, I'll buy that. And I think, uh, I will say this though. I think the big step forward, my actually have like his, uh, you know, accounting stats come a little bit down. I don't think I wished I was state needs him to average 18 points a game, uh, this year, just because they have so much office of talent around him.

And I think, uh, what, what I said, I think what NBA people want to see is his efficiency go up. Uh, you know, he's, he's great beyond the arc. I mean, don't get me wrong, but like the mid range game. You know, very bad around the rim finishing, you know, very bad in terms of, you know, those NBA prospects. So those are two areas where I think you could see Tyson take a big leap.

Maybe they don't, you know, stand up, uh, you know, out of the, the statistics are that, uh, stand out in the [00:50:00] box score. But I do think you, you will see him. I think he's been working on that part of his game this whole summer. I think you will see a drastic improvements there. I think he's really, uh, improved his game and the ball screen.

And like I said, you know, that triple drive off fence, I think you're going to see him become more of a playmaker just because he's going to have so much defensive attention on him. I think, uh, him and Mo had a really, really good pick and roll connection when I watched them earlier this summer. So I think that's something you might see happen a little bit more, uh, you know, cause Mo really hasn't, you know, he's gotten some, uh, you know, uh, some stuff off the pick and roll, but not a lot.

A lot of his work comes just, you know, back to the basket, just feed him, download. Let them go to work, but I think you could see Moe become more involved in that pick and roll. And, uh, yeah. W I think Tyson's going to level up his game. I think his points per game is going to come down a little, but I think his assist total is going to go up.

And then his overall efficiency shooting, like the true shooting percentage number. I think you're gonna see that go up to,

Dustin: buy that as well. There were some times last season where I felt like he put a little too much on himself and kind of wanted to score 10 points with one shot. And so I would agree with Taylor that I think it becomes much more efficient this year.

Bryan: All right. And Finally.

Buy or sell a freshmen cracks the solid rotation with at least 10 minutes per game.

Dustin: I'll sell that

I think getting is the one that would do that, but I don't think he quite gets to 10 minutes per game. I think it will be the most show unless he's in foul trouble

Taylor: so Kenny will be out there cause Mo can't stay out of foul

Dustin: Joe pleasant will be in there

Taylor: All buy that. I think, I think Kenny just goes, I mean, out of a necessity, I mean, they don't really have any other options at five. I think Joe will play five in the pinch, but I don't think they want to play him, you know, a ton of minutes at the five. So like Justin said, I mean, I think Mo I mean, that's, that's his job.

He's going to play as many minutes as he can. I would expect that to be, you know, we're in the 25 range, but you know, that, that leaves a lot. Opportunities behind him. I think Kenny will, will be over 10. Um, and I think he could surprise some people with, you know, some of the flashes, like I said, I mean, he can just change the offense completely when he goes in the game because of his pick and profitability.

You know, just, I, I mean, IB said it gave him the most praise after Shakur madness. I've heard, uh, all summer was that he said that that's the best shooting, big man I've ever coached, you know,

Uh,

25 plus years of college basketball. So he has a chance to be special and really changed WSU offense. So I think it will get, I mean, I'm not saying he's going to play a ton, but I do think it will be over 10 minutes.

Dustin: Well, it's exciting to be back behind the mic. I know as we've talked about today, the team is not necessarily getting the national recognition just yet, but I think this is an exciting season for shocker fans. If nothing else, other than 10,000 5 0 6 are back, you have some great non-conference games, not necessarily a co-creator, but you have some really good non-conference match-ups and you have a, an American.

Uh, conference run. That should be competitive all season long. So we'll be with you there the entire time. We'll probably be back after the first exhibition game gets you ready for those first two regular season games of the year. If you haven't had the chance to tell your fellow Shakur fans about the podcast, we love to expand the reach as far as we can, and as always tailor, what should they not forget to do?

Taylor: You gotta rate us five star.